octoberman

Banned
Hapsburg Charles V ruled the Americas through Spain and the Holy Roman Empire through Austria but gave up Austria to his brother Ferdinand II because he became very ill at a young age and feared he wouldn't survive to his heir's adulthood. His son Phillip II succeeded him in Spain and married Mary I Queen of England but their they had no children and she was succeeded by her sister. Later by being the maternal grandson of a king of Portugal he took over Portugal after his predecessor died in battle in Morocco.

so what if Charles V had Phillip II succeed him in all his territories and Ferdinand inherits Hungary, Croatia, and Bohemia after Mohacs. Mary births a son to Phillip II who succeeds his parents in all territories forming a personal union of England, Spain, Portugal, Austria and Holy Roman Empire with a colonial empire in Asia, Africa and Americas. He later inherits Hungary, Croatia, and Bohemia after Ferdinand's family as killed by protestant revolt

how will this effect thirty years war, english civil war, dutch revolt, 13 colonies, colonialism in general ?

can this be unified into one country like UK
 
no takers ?
Charles V and Ferdinand of Austria already divided their inheritance, before Philip II was born. Ferdinand was always entitled to a part of the Austrian inheritance, but Charles having inherited the whole Spanish inheritance, argued he should inherit the whole Imperial inheritance, meaning Austria-Burgundy. Charles in turn originally only wanted to give the minimal Austrian share to Ferdinand. Two things changed this, Bohemia-Hungary was quite clear that the Habsburg archduke, who was to marry their princess Anne, needed a substantial powerbase, and the Austrian Estates did not want to be divided. So in 1521 it was agreed that all the Austrian Hereditary Lands went to Ferdinand, including original share of Charles. One might see it as a slight loss for Charles, but OTOH he was able to keep the Burgundian and Spanish inheritance all for himself.

However Ferdinand without all the Austrian Hereditary Lands will not be so sure of being the husband of Anne of Bohemia & Hungary, which by then were very aware needed an ally against the Ottomans.
 
Charles V and Ferdinand of Austria already divided their inheritance, before Philip II was born. Ferdinand was always entitled to a part of the Austrian inheritance, but Charles having inherited the whole Spanish inheritance, argued he should inherit the whole Imperial inheritance, meaning Austria-Burgundy. Charles in turn originally only wanted to give the minimal Austrian share to Ferdinand. Two things changed this, Bohemia-Hungary was quite clear that the Habsburg archduke, who was to marry their princess Anne, needed a substantial powerbase, and the Austrian Estates did not want to be divided. So in 1521 it was agreed that all the Austrian Hereditary Lands went to Ferdinand, including original share of Charles. One might see it as a slight loss for Charles, but OTOH he was able to keep the Burgundian and Spanish inheritance all for himself.

Just have an Austrian-Imperial line and an Anglo-Spanish one. Mary's son and his descendants is indisputably the heir of the Anglo-Spanish-Burgundian territories. Then some time later, oh whoops Mary's great-great grandson died. Going by primogeniture.... ah it's a girl and she's betrothed to a Habsburg of the Imperial line. As long as we have primogeniture and Salic law isn't getting in the way, two friendly kingdoms can end up in a personal union together.

I had a some ideas going on in my own thread about England and the HRE.


It's a bit earlier than what @octoberman wanted, but some of the replies did propose an easier way to get the marriages and inheritances right. Diego had a good one, all you have to do is modify it a bit for a later POD that takes places after Phillip II is King.
 
Just have an Austrian-Imperial line and an Anglo-Spanish one. Mary's son and his descendants is indisputably the heir of the Anglo-Spanish-Burgundian territories. Then some time later, oh whoops Mary's great-great grandson died. Going by primogeniture.... ah it's a girl and she's betrothed to a Habsburg of the Imperial line. As long as we have primogeniture and Salic law isn't getting in the way, two friendly kingdoms can end up in a personal union together.

I had a some ideas going on in my own thread about England and the HRE.

I agree, perhaps the marriage between Mary of Spain (daughter of Charles V) and Maximilian II (son of Ferdinand of Austria) might have transferred Burgundy to the Austrian branch.
More likely, it stays with branch of Charles V. Though to keep it, an eventual Anglo-Burgundian branch would IMHO be better.
It's a bit earlier than what @octoberman wanted, but some of the replies did propose an easier way to get the marriages and inheritances right. Diego had a good one, all you have to do is modify it a bit for a later POD that takes places after Phillip II is King.
I agree interesting ideas.
 
Can not work as Charles V had exactly two choices: give the whole Austrian lands to Ferdinand and secure his marriage to Anna OR marry her himself (something who he had already refuted to do more than once)
OTL at the time Charles V was still hoping for a French or English match. Anne of Bohemia & Hungary would have been an ideal bride for a more Imperial focused Charles. He needed to convinced to marry his eventual Portuguese bride, infanta Isabella too. So in an ATL, where Charles only has Austria-Burgundy, IMHO it's possible to convince Charles to marry Anne, once any realistic French or English option is off the table.
In the end IOTL both Charles and Ferdinand were lucky with the brides they ended up with.
 
OTL at the time Charles V was still hoping for a French or English match. Anne of Bohemia & Hungary would have been an ideal bride for a more Imperial focused Charles. He needed to convinced to marry his eventual Portuguese bride, infanta Isabella too. So in an ATL, where Charles only has Austria-Burgundy, IMHO it's possible to convince Charles to marry Anne, once any realistic French or English option is off the table.
In the end IOTL both Charles and Ferdinand were lucky with the brides they ended up with.
OTL Charles was engaged to Francis I’s young daughters and was bound by a treaty to marry either a daughter of Francis or Renee
 
OTL Charles was engaged to Francis I’s young daughters and was bound by a treaty to marry either a daughter of Francis or Renee
OTL Charles at times was also actively looking to secure the hand of Mary Tudor the elder, who ended up being the third wife of Louis XII of France. IIRC Charles was originally betrothed with Claude of France, and then Louise of France both daughters of Louis XII. IMHO they together with Mary Tudor the elder (dauhter of Henry VII) were realistic options.
The daughters of Francis I, like Mary Tudor the younger (daughter of Henry VIII) never were realistic options as first wife for Charles V, they might have ended up as a second wife, but the age gap would mean an unacceptable long wait, before Charles V would have had an heir.
 
OTL Charles at times was also actively looking to secure the hand of Mary Tudor the elder, who ended up being the third wife of Louis XII of France. IIRC Charles was originally betrothed with Claude of France, and then Louise of France both daughters of Louis XII. IMHO they together with Mary Tudor the elder (dauhter of Henry VII) were realistic options.
Charles was engaged fist to Claude, then after her father broke the engagement to Mary Tudor the elder. The only reason for which Charles do not married Mary was who he delayed indefinitely the wedding, under pressure by Ferdinand of Aragon, who wanted Charles to marry Renée of France, pushing Henry to break the engagement and marry his sister to the old French King. Louise of France was the eldest daughter of Claude and Francis I NOT her sister.
The daughters of Francis I, like Mary Tudor the younger (daughter of Henry VIII) never were realistic options as first wife for Charles V, they might have ended up as a second wife, but the age gap would mean an unacceptable long wait, before Charles V would have had an heir.
Still in OTL he was engaged to all three of them between 1516 and 1525 meaning who Charles was willing enough to wait,
 

octoberman

Banned
Charles V and Ferdinand of Austria already divided their inheritance, before Philip II was born. Ferdinand was always entitled to a part of the Austrian inheritance, but Charles having inherited the whole Spanish inheritance, argued he should inherit the whole Imperial inheritance, meaning Austria-Burgundy. Charles in turn originally only wanted to give the minimal Austrian share to Ferdinand. Two things changed this, Bohemia-Hungary was quite clear that the Habsburg archduke, who was to marry their princess Anne, needed a substantial powerbase, and the Austrian Estates did not want to be divided. So in 1521 it was agreed that all the Austrian Hereditary Lands went to Ferdinand, including original share of Charles. One might see it as a slight loss for Charles, but OTOH he was able to keep the Burgundian and Spanish inheritance all for himself.

However Ferdinand without all the Austrian Hereditary Lands will not be so sure of being the husband of Anne of Bohemia & Hungary, which by then were very aware needed an ally against the Ottomans.
Then have Austrian Estates choose Charles V whose alliance with Bohemia & Hungary is sealed by Anne's marriage to his brother
 
Then have Austrian Estates choose Charles V whose alliance with Bohemia & Hungary is sealed by Anne's marriage to his brother
Ferdinand would NOT marry Anne unless he got the Austrian inheritance (and Charles had no intention to marry Anne)
 
so what if Charles V had Phillip II succeed him in all his territories and Ferdinand inherits Hungary, Croatia, and Bohemia after Mohacs.
The problem is, Bohemia is the only Electorate the Habsburgs have. You would need a very good reason to convince Ferdinand to vote for his nephew instead of for himself. Maybe Charles could promise his brother the next Emperor after Philip being one of his sons? But good luck in convincing Ferdinand of that and actually for him in enforcing it after Philip is named Emperor. And if Ferdinand is sterile and had no sons, then his oriental empire (Bohemia, Hungary, Croatia) collapses and there is a chance for a non-Habsburg to go there and take their place, instead.
The other option is for Ferdinand to die young and for Charles to marry Anne instead, thus becoming King of Bohemia and Hungary himself. But this would butterfly Philip and a future succession for the Portuguese throne, letting Portugal out of the equation thus no united Iberia in this timeline.
 
Why not ?
Because she would not marry an almost landless younger son, she was a royal princess who was expected to marry a ruler.

The problem is, Bohemia is the only Electorate the Habsburgs have. You would need a very good reason to convince Ferdinand to vote for his nephew instead of for himself. Maybe Charles could promise his brother the next Emperor after Philip being one of his sons? But good luck in convincing Ferdinand of that and actually for him in enforcing it after Philip is named Emperor. And if Ferdinand is sterile and had no sons, then his oriental empire (Bohemia, Hungary, Croatia) collapses and there is a chance for a non-Habsburg to go there and take their place, instead.
The other option is for Ferdinand to die young and for Charles to marry Anne instead, thus becoming King of Bohemia and Hungary himself. But this would butterfly Philip and a future succession for the Portuguese throne, letting Portugal out of the equation thus no united Iberia in this timeline.
Charles would not marry Anne, as he was seeing her as no good enough for himself and that would not change with the death of Ferdinand
 
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